Troy McNaughtonWar on Terror
December 3rd 2007 13:05
This is a subject I have been debating with Liberal Dems that hold a much different view point than I do. That's ok because here in America we are allowed to have different view points, and still not be punished. To be more understanding, and to get a greater knowledge of how the left feels about the war on terror, I have been reading some of their articles, and watching their liberal news stations.
I was shocked, and totally dismayed at their outrageous charges. America is to blame for all the worlds troubles, and is the cause of terrorism in the world. They even make it sound like America is to blame for the terror attacks on 9/11.
And they go on to say that we should stop fighting the terrorist, and ignore them and they will go away. This is the Liberal Democrat's plan to fight terrorism, or should I say a lack of a plan. They refuse to see the dangers that terrorist pose to America.
I know they can't invade America with large forces and take over the country, I am not that stupid, although some have kinda hinted I was. But they did invade with a few illegals, and carried out the most horrific attacks in America History surpassing Pearl Harbor. No they did not utterly destroy America, but caused a tremendous amount of pain, and claimed about 3,000 innocent victims.
They say the right is using the war on terror to scare Americans, while demonizing the poor little terrorist. Seems to me the left have things kinda mixed up. They blame America for Torture, and does not take into consideration that the terrorist does much worse. They side with the terrorist, while portraying America as a barbaric dictatorship.
They have demonized our President, our Military leaders, and even our great Military, that has volunteer to keep America and her citizens safe. While em-bolding our enemies, and causing our Troops to be in greater harm.
The left say they support America, and admit that America is at risk for another attack greater that 9/11, but say we should do nothing till that happens, and then we will figure out what to do then, that attitude got us to 9/11 in the first place.
They say our war on terror causes the terrorist's family to hate us, well they already hated us that is why they attacked us. They say that George Bush is creating terrorist, but wasn't America, and her interest already attacked by terrorist before George Bush took office, so that dog won't hunt here.
The plan the dems support is the same plan that Bill Clinton use when he was president. He did nothing, and ignored the terrorist, and that lead to the terrorist being embolden to carry out more destructive attacks, because they had no fear of reprisals. Guess what Liberal Dems the terrorist did not go away.
They say there is no real war on terror, this is just a scare tactic of the right. I guess they forgot about 9/11, and Bin Laden, and his partners in terror. The Dems must have a failing memory, to forget so much in such a short time.
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I was shocked, and totally dismayed at their outrageous charges. America is to blame for all the worlds troubles, and is the cause of terrorism in the world. They even make it sound like America is to blame for the terror attacks on 9/11.
And they go on to say that we should stop fighting the terrorist, and ignore them and they will go away. This is the Liberal Democrat's plan to fight terrorism, or should I say a lack of a plan. They refuse to see the dangers that terrorist pose to America.
I know they can't invade America with large forces and take over the country, I am not that stupid, although some have kinda hinted I was. But they did invade with a few illegals, and carried out the most horrific attacks in America History surpassing Pearl Harbor. No they did not utterly destroy America, but caused a tremendous amount of pain, and claimed about 3,000 innocent victims.
They say the right is using the war on terror to scare Americans, while demonizing the poor little terrorist. Seems to me the left have things kinda mixed up. They blame America for Torture, and does not take into consideration that the terrorist does much worse. They side with the terrorist, while portraying America as a barbaric dictatorship.
They have demonized our President, our Military leaders, and even our great Military, that has volunteer to keep America and her citizens safe. While em-bolding our enemies, and causing our Troops to be in greater harm.
The left say they support America, and admit that America is at risk for another attack greater that 9/11, but say we should do nothing till that happens, and then we will figure out what to do then, that attitude got us to 9/11 in the first place.
They say our war on terror causes the terrorist's family to hate us, well they already hated us that is why they attacked us. They say that George Bush is creating terrorist, but wasn't America, and her interest already attacked by terrorist before George Bush took office, so that dog won't hunt here.
The plan the dems support is the same plan that Bill Clinton use when he was president. He did nothing, and ignored the terrorist, and that lead to the terrorist being embolden to carry out more destructive attacks, because they had no fear of reprisals. Guess what Liberal Dems the terrorist did not go away.
They say there is no real war on terror, this is just a scare tactic of the right. I guess they forgot about 9/11, and Bin Laden, and his partners in terror. The Dems must have a failing memory, to forget so much in such a short time.
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Comment by D.S.Mills
extinction2060
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Not I surely?
The problem with this post is that you assume that everyone who disagrees with you must be a Liberal Dem. As a result of that preconception you never ask their reasoning or justification with evidence. You already have them pegged to fit the stereotype you have for them.
I am neither a Liberal nor a Democrat and yet I disagree with your assessment on several grounds.
It is entirely up to you if you wish to hear someone out or not and no one can make you change your mind if you choose not to.
Yet to accuse everyone who disagree with your view point of belonging to some ideological camp is false reasoning at its worst.
Comment by Lester Caudill
Conservative Christian Views
You have to agree that most of the criticism is coming from the liberal democrat side, and you have to agree that they have put forth no plan other than criticism.
It may have been to broad of characterization to label everyone as a liberal democrat, but the majority are.
I know there maybe others such as the ones that support Ron Paul, which is a pretty good guy I think.
Damo I am very concern about the way we conduct what is called a war on terror. We cannot afford to attack every nation that is a potential threat.
I don't want to see our men and women continually in harms way, and I do want them to come home.
I have two teen aged boys that are nearing adulthood, I don't want them to have to go and fight a war that they are not allowed to win.
I don't want them to have to face the same criticism, and hatred that our current military personal has faced recently for some of the democrats, you know what I am talking about.
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
If I am to consider criticism from out side the USA (of which the majority of Orble is) then Democrat is a meaningless term. The term liberal is also meaningless outside the ideological reference point that you have imposed upon it. Hence it is little more than name calling and can easily be countered with the meaningless accusation of Fascist war-mongers. So such simplistic terms actually avoid the issue rather than engage it.
My view is that every issue stands and falls on its own merrits regardless of who is supporting it.
Concern over the War on Terror is not the exclusive property of Conservatives or Neo-Conservatives. Nor is expertise or experience in that matter.
It seems to me that despite the gulf of differences in approach both sides want exactly the same result. A world without terrorism.
The most iportant question is: which approach will yield the best results?
And just as important: which approach will make matters worse?
To assume that everyone on Orble is sum of what they have written is a big mistake. Many people come from places where war, terrorism and government sponsored terror exists. Many people also have sons who they would not like to see sent to pointless battles. Many people have expertise in matters that go beyond the volitile rhetoric of media sound bites. Many go beyond the reactionary attitudes that everyone on the otherside must be wrong and evil.
Several things may seem true to those that have no experience that somehow change when the desire to end the problem is greater than the desire to end the problem to match a preconcieved narrative.
You will find people who disagree with your viewpoint who do know about this subject very well but until you ask for their reasoning you will never know why you assume that they are wrong or why you can assume that you are right.
Comment by Lester Caudill
Conservative Christian Views
I know I am no expert, but what I am saying if you are going to criticize other peoples ideas or the way they do things, you should you offer a counter point to that.
All I have heard is how wrong the war on terror is by the United States, but they offer no counter plan, just criticism. If they are truly experts why haven't they come up with a plan that works to stop terrorism.
Like it or not we have not had a terrorist attack since 2001 I feel the current plan is working here maybe the other countries that have problems with terror should maybe get a little tougher on terror.
The US has made the rest of the world safer, because of the aggressive actions that have been taken against terrorist, and if the experts you are talking about would have done this years ago terrorism would not be a big risk as it is.
So I am asking one more time with out criticism, what is the counter plan to President Bush's plan that is working at this time.
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
I am sort of reminded about the person who kept a rusted nail as a tiger repellent. He lived in Antartica and has not seen a tiger yet. Must be the rusted nail.
There have been many plans put forward that would reduce terrorism but the solutions are not what people want to here.
Such plans stem from the causes of terrorism and the recruitment of terrorism.
The other problem is that there are too many people who became terrorist experts on September 12. As such they have fed each other preconceptions about what terrorism is and how it comes to exist.
The other problem is that terrorism has been elevated through some media sources to an almost mystical level. The word has become a self contained description for the totality of evil. This is a mistake as it deminishes other forms of oppression such as state sponsored terror and state sponsored torture.
The other problem is that the lable of terrorism is being distributed to everyone that is considered an enemy.
People are labled as terrorist when in fact they are insurgents and others are called terrorist sypathizers when they are only expressing a different opinion.
The other problem is that the term terrorist is being used to avoid any questions about grievances and so it feeding the cycle of violence. Grievences are ignored, frustration sets in, terrorism thrives in an enviroment of frustration.
The other problem is that some people like to milk their victimhood to justify any crime. This is true of terrorists but just as true of those that claim to be fighting them.
The other problem(and I have seen this for myself) is that some people are getting very rich out of war. Peace for them is bad business.
If you want to stop terrorism then you will have to accept some pretty unpalitable home truths. Without that the cycle of violence will continue to spiral onto another generation and will never end.
Yet the most basic truth is that terrorism is not an ideology that can be defeated. It is a tactic.
Comment by Lester Caudill
Conservative Christian Views